128: Meet The Math Teacher Who Landed a Data Job in 60 Days (Thomas Gresco)

I was applying to X amount of jobs a day or a week and just wasn't hearing anything. And I gotta be doing something wrong here. I felt like I had worked really hard up until that point and I wasn't getting any results.

And little did you know, two weeks later, you're going to have a job that you're super stoked on.

I paid like 12 grand to learn skills, which is how much you could pay for a master's program, which. In all likelihood, they also don't set you up with the portfolio or networking, right? So essentially, I paid, I paid for what would be the equivalent of a master's program and got none of the portfolio or networking. that I could have done here first for 11, 000 less and that's the only regret that I have. When we're talking about regrets, that's the only regret that I have. Hi, my name is Thomas. Uh, I went from a high school math teacher to a senior reimbursement analyst in less than 70 days.

Thomas, I want to talk about your whole journey from going from a high school math teacher to landing a data job, but I want to start with, with a question or maybe more of a story. Um, but basically. You booked a one on one call with me back in March of 2024. And I remember we did our first phone call, uh, and I was like, Okay, yeah, high school math teacher. I asked these questions before so I can be prepared for the call. So I saw like high school math teacher, but you like knew a bunch of Data skills. And so we got on the call and I was like, Oh my gosh, this guy is so close to landing a data job because he has all the skills, but just doesn't actually have like the projects, the portfolio, uh, and, and the network. So I was like, if he follows the SPN method, he's going to land a job quickly. Uh, cause you'd be set. Did you feel the same way?

Yeah. And I think just our conversation really drove me to joining your program. You know, I, I felt like you were someone that could really help me because I had gone through, and we talked about it, the, the Rutgers data science bootcamp, where I learned a lot of these skills and some of them I had learned in my undergrad program. Um, but I just, I wasn't getting anything, you know, I was applying to X amount of jobs a day or, or a week and just wasn't hearing anything. And I was like, I gotta be doing something wrong here. Or, or at least something I could be doing better. And I felt like through our conversation, like I could find something better in, within your program. And I think once I joined that program, it really kind of. Kicked off for me where, you know, I, I went through the, the skill stuff, like we, like you just said, wasn't, was pretty easy for me, but then it was the building of the projects, the networking portion, uh, the building the portfolio, which I think really helped me, uh, land this job.

It's, it's interesting you said that, cause I remember getting off that call. This was in March, uh, mid March. And I was like, man, this guy is such a great candidate for the SBN method. I really hope he joins the accelerator program so we can walk him through that path. Uh, but it still took you six weeks to, to join the accelerator. What were you doing those six weeks?

Uh, so that was March. And then I guess I joined one in May, I want to say.

Yeah.

Okay. April. All right. You know, Oh, I remember. Um, so I was going on spring break. From, cause at the time I'm, I'm a teacher and spring break was around Easter time, so middle of April or so. And I said to my girlfriend, if I didn't have land any interview before that time, I was just going to take a chance and join this. Um, so that's what I did. Uh, I didn't have an interview. Uh, I felt really, you know, not down on myself, but just disappointed almost, cause I felt like I had worked really hard up until that point and I wasn't getting any results. And, you know, it just kind of made me want to join more and we got to that point. I was like, I'm going to do it. So I sat down, joined and just got started and put my head down and kind of worked every single weekend. And also, it made it easier that it's towards the end of the school year. I'm sure you remember or. Back in high school at the end of the school year isn't really the toughest on, on the students or really even the teachers are kind of winding down. So it was, it was easy for me to even, you know, do work during the day too.

Totally. I understand that. Um, you, you ultimately joined the accelerator and. You landed a job as this senior reimbursement analyst pretty quickly. Do you know how fast you landed that job?

Uh, so I started the program in April. We said end of April and I got that job. I think I had the first interview in the middle of June. So about a month and a half.

Yeah, I guess I would say I had from your start day of the accelerator to when you told us that you landed the job. I have a 61 days, so less, less than two months. And you had been doing like, for instance, like you said, this data science bootcamp through Rutgers, like all, not all of last year, but you had done it the year previous. So, so basically. Like I said, you were so close landing a job. You just need the SPN method. What is, do you feel like that's what made the difference for you to like, to, to have land that job within two months?

Absolutely. I would, I would say definitely. Cause I felt like I had the skills, like we just talked about. I just wasn't networking correctly. Uh, I wasn't doing what I had to do on LinkedIn and you don't realize, you know, coming from the education world, LinkedIn doesn't really exist. You apply for jobs and you go on the interviews and you bring you know, stuff that you had done in other classrooms or in my case because it was right out of college or in student teaching. Um, and that's pretty much it. Whereas for this, this was all brand new to me. And the boot camp that I took, well all good and well, I learned these skills. I had no idea what to do after. There was no You know, you should do this to network with X, Y, and Z, or this is how you should show off your projects. It was just, we did a lot of projects and a lot of. Uh, little tasks or homework assignments, they called it, uh, but that was all on GitHub. And like you and I had talked about in that first call, you're like, that's not really going to do anything for you because no, um, employer or hiring manager is going to sift through a bunch of code on your GitHub for like, it's just not going to do anything. Um, so I think SPN definitely made the difference for me where, you know, I learned the skills, made these projects and then was able to network and show off these projects in a really cool way.

I think so too. I think, I think you were so close. You had all the skills, you just needed the portfolio, uh, and the networking. Um, when I went through your LinkedIn today to like kind of go through your whole journey, uh, you had posted once about the, the data science bootcamp from Rutgers and it was at, at the very end. Yeah. I think it was maybe just like the certificate or something. And that's so opposed to how we do it inside of Data Analytics Accelerator, where like literally day one, I'm like, post on LinkedIn, post on LinkedIn. You finish your first project, post on LinkedIn. Uh, so I think that was one of the big things. And that's ultimately how you found this job, correct? Was someone reposted it on LinkedIn?

Yeah. So like you said, I had really never posted on LinkedIn throughout that bootcamp, which is obviously wasn't doing me any good. And then started posting on LinkedIn. Through the bootcamp or through, um, our program. And then I just kind of followed people who you interacted with on LinkedIn and found a lot of them to be posting jobs. And the one guy, I'm sorry, I can't give him credit. I don't really remember his name or who it was exactly, but he posted, I think like 10 or so remote jobs, either weekly, every few days, and. I would just apply to them if I thought I was a decent candidate for the job. Even if I wasn't really like a super great fit in layman's terms, I, I just, I thought might as well apply, can't hurt to apply. Um, so I applied, uh, to this specific job and I was able to get an interview. I was honestly kind of shocked that I got the interview with them, but that's, that's what I'm saying. Like you just, you never know. And I think it's really important to apply and look at these posts. There's a lot of. You know, anecdotal stuff on LinkedIn and you have talked about posting some stuff like that too. Um, in the, in the data career jumpstart, but there are also a lot of people who are trying to help us, like people that are looking for jobs where they're posting jobs. And I think that's really important to look for and not to get too bogged down in, Oh, this isn't, For me, because really it's for everybody. Everybody's doing it. You know,

I think you had also mentioned that that job that you ended up landing required, what, two to three years of experience.

Yeah, it was 2 to 3 years of some healthcare or medical experience, which obviously I'm a math teacher. I did. I just did not have, um, and I can't I think that's what it said, but it said that in the actual job description, but in the. Original post on LinkedIn by the hiring manager. It said zero to two years experience needed. So I was like, Oh, well the original post says zero to two years. I don't really care what the job description says right now. Let me just apply and see what happens. So I think don't get discouraged by a lot of what job descriptions say. You know, a lot of that could come from the top down. It might not even come from the hiring manager. It could just come from. What the company as a whole want that job description to say

at the end of the day, job descriptions are really more wishlist than they are requirements. So if you fit like 65 to 70 percent maybe even 50 percent sometimes, you know, go ahead and apply, right? Because you never know what might happen. And that was true for you. And in this case, do you remember if you was it like a linkedin easy apply? Was it that you did you apply on their website?

Um, I applied on their website. So it was a link. I just clicked on the link and I applied on the website. It was really simple. And I think you and I had actually talked about this in the original call that we had in March, or even, I think I talked to you again in April or so right around when I joined the program. It was the

DM you sent me, I think.

Yeah. And it was, and you said just always apply on, uh, the actual website. If you can, they're just more likely to look at that than the LinkedIn, um, like easy apply algorithm.

It's, it's super true. Um, having posted a job on LinkedIn jobs, let me tell you, uh, LinkedIn, you need to hire a data scientist to make your algorithm for candidates a lot better because I got over 550 applicants and the top applicants were not on the first two pages. I'll tell you that, like who they thought was relevant. I was like, this person's not relevant. So that's great. Did you do anything special, cover letter, send a cold message, anything like that?

Uh, definitely sent a cold message and it was funny because, um, the person who interviewed me first, uh, I sent a cold message to her boss and then she said, you know, honestly, your, your resume was just passed to me. Like, I, someone got a message from you and that's how I got your resume. And I decided to, you know, interview and I was like, well, that's awesome. I guess that worked out for me. Um, but I don't think I did a cover letter. Uh, we might've even talked about this. I think the cover letters, while they're important, I guess they're way more likely to just read your cold message. If that's what you're sending them, then they are your cover letter.

Cold messages are the new, uh, cover letter. I think cover letters are kind of dead. And if you can send a cold message where it's like, I don't have to read one page of stuff. That's just mostly fluff that you use chat GPT to write. And instead you can tell me and like. Three to four lines, who you are, why I should care about you. I think that's so directly to my inbox. I think that's way more impactful. That's awesome. I didn't realize you sent a cold message. I think that's, I'm trying to figure out like, you know, when, when Thomas is applying, I know you're a great candidate, you know, you're a great candidate, but how do you convince this recruiter and this hiring manager that When they have, you know, 500 other candidates that you're the right candidate. And I think the cold message is one and then probably your portfolio helped stand out a little bit.

Yeah, I would think so. I think just going back to the cold messages, like I was sending one to every job that I applied to, uh, or at least trying to, trying to find someone that I could. And I, I believe there's a page or a couple of pages on our, on our, uh, Like in our book of materials that you gave us where it just kind of gives you like an outline of what you should say to these people and that's what I was, I had it bookmarked. I was going back to it every single time. Um, but yeah, they did talk about my, um, uh, portfolio. I think it was probably a sticking out point. Uh, you know, uh, person that interviewed me first said it was definitely super interesting. And like I said to you, uh, she thought that just based on that, that my analytical skills absolutely qualified for the job that they were looking for.

That's actually really cool because, um, You know, you didn't have any healthcare experience prior to this, but one of the things I tried to do when I designed the bootcamp was each module has like a different industry theme. And so in module five, we, we cover some healthcare data using SQL. So, you know, you, you'd maybe never actually like in a workplace looked at healthcare records, but in this bootcamp, we had looked over, I think there's like 2 million rows in that, in that SQL data. Set that we, we analyze. So you had, you had at least some, you created your own healthcare experience at the end of the

day. I think I actually said that I was like, yeah, in my portfolio, uh, I, you know, I had this healthcare project that we worked on, uh, you know, I tried to pull from family members too. I was like, I have some family that works in healthcare and you know, you don't want to necessarily lie because they could ask you follow up questions, but you certainly want to make your knowledge look a little bit better. And I think that's what I tried to do, especially using that project that we had worked on in the, in the class.

Hey, experience is experience. No one can take it away. You can just describe it as it is and they can decide whether they think it qualifies enough. But it's always good to get that out there. Um, even with that, I think this is true. I haven't talked about that. I haven't talked to you about this before. Um, but, uh, I think after this first interview, this, this timeline maps up a little bit, um, you went into our community and you said, just finished the capstone and I had my first interview, uh, this week, however, it seems like I don't have enough healthcare experience. So I'm not too confident if anything else, it was a good interview experience. I'm continuing to apply for jobs and sending cold messages. And you said this great line, some days it's hard to not feel defeated, but definitely trying to stay as positive as possible, hoping to land something soon. Was that, was that the first interview for this job?

Yeah, that was the first interview for that job. And I'm laughing thinking about, thinking back to that. Cause I'm really, I got off the call and I was like, wow, I have no shot. I was like, I don't have this healthcare experience. And, uh, it just kind of all worked out. I think that's the important thing. Like, if we talked about this a little bit, just go on these interviews and kind of be yourself. Um, I really talked about my willingness to learn and want to learn. And, um, I guess they liked that. Um, and I, again, I was really surprised and I was after that, got the second interview and I was pretty nervous for that too. I was like, I wonder, I don't even know why they're interviewing me a second time right now. Um, but that interview and I said it when I got off it, I was like, I really think that I might have just gotten this and it wasn't anything technical. Uh, they did ask a little bit about my experience, but you just kind of go into these interviews and you kind of feel the vibe with the people that you're going to work for. And I just thought the vibe was great. You know, I thought they'd be great people to work for and it got me really excited about it. And. You just say, here I

am. I think that's so interesting and I love that, that the interviews, sometimes they're super scary, but a lot of the times they're just like, okay, does this person seem like they have enough technical skills and are they able to learn the rest? I know that's one of the things you mentioned. It's like, maybe I don't know healthcare yet, but I'm, I'm willing to learn that. Um, I want to go back to that phrase. Sometimes it is hard to not feel defeated. Uh, what were you feeling when, when you posted that?

I think I was a little bit upset. Um. Probably defeated, honestly, because I just, I felt like this, when I'm sure there are a lot of people like me out there where, you know, you're applying to so many jobs and you're not hearing back that when you get that first interview with that company, no matter what company it is, you feel like, all right, this is my shot. I got to get this. And that's how I felt with this company. And I, like I said to you, I, I feel like the first interview didn't go as well as I, not that it didn't go well. It just, I know what they were expecting and I didn't think that was me. So that, it kind of stunk. Um, but at the same time, like I knew how badly I wanted to change what I was doing or change my career path, that it was still driving me because, you know, You know, I talked to my family about it and they're like, well, even if you don't get it, you're not just going to stop. And I was like, yeah, you're right. There's really no point feeling defeated because I'm not going to just stop. I, you know, you want to keep going until you get that ultimate goal of getting a new job. And I think that's where the staying positive portion is, is really.

Uh, I love the fact that you didn't stop applying. A lot of people land interviews and then they stop applying. Um, and it's so bad because when you ultimately don't get that job, I mean, you did in this case, but when you usually don't get that job, you have, you have to start all over again and interview processes might take one month. So it's like. You, for one month, you basically had no new applications, no new interviews coming your way, and you're starting over from scratch. So I love that you, that you kept applying. Uh, let's talk a little bit about your job that you have now. Um, so it's senior reimbursement analyst. Just go ahead and talk a little bit about, you know, how you use data at that job and what you actually do.

Yeah. So healthcare companies have contracts with every hospital pretty much. Um, and these hospitals contract us. To maximize their revenue. So what I do throughout the day is I read through these contracts, uh, that the healthcare companies in the hospitals have, and I try to maximize revenue for So we have what we have called a portal, uh, where I do a lot of data validation, uh, and data cleaning, meaning I go through this year's contracts and probably the contract from the year before, or even two years ago, and I make sure that these price points like make sense. So, um, what does that mean exactly? Like, if last year was. You know, the maximum price they would charge. Let's just keep it simple. It's 500 at 70%. Uh, and this year I need to make sure that they're not going to, I don't know, 2, 000 at that same percentage. It just wouldn't really make sense. Uh, so that's where the, the validation comes in to kind of make sure that those numbers are correct. And if I feel like they're super off, then I'll contact the, uh, the contacts that our company has. Um, To make sure that this is specifically what they want. Uh, and then I do some work in Excel. Uh, specifically with tables, not, not actually really pivot tables, little bit, little bit of pivot tables, but more so table work, uh, VLOOKUPs. Pretty much everything that we do in your program. Um, it's actually funny because one of the, in training, uh, my boss was talking about VLOOKUP. So I was like, Oh, do you guys use XLOOKUP? And my boss was like, I don't even know what that is. And I was like, it just makes VLOOKUP a lot easier. That's all. Um, so, um, a lot of the work is done in Excel, uh, which I feel like for most entry level data jobs, it's perfect because you don't know it until you actually get into it, but Excel is, is perfect. Pretty user friendly and you know, you know how to do a lot of it. Or at least what is needed for the job tasks. And anything you don't really know, it's relatively easy to look up. I'm not really making complex SQL code yet or Python codes, but I'm kind of looking forward to eventually jumping into that and for this there is. A lot of room to growth, but yeah, that's what my day to day pretty much looks like is just looking through these contracts or, you know, helping people with, uh, fixing up Excel codes and things like that.

Well, that's one of the things that we try to talk about in the program as well, is just like, let's get your foot in the door and then you can learn the rest of it on the job. And one of the things you mentioned, uh, when we were talking before the call was just like how there's lots of room for growth. At this company, there's lots of, uh, different data roles that you could eventually, you know, grow into as you continue to, to have experience, uh, as, as you, as you learn and as you get better, uh, data skills. Um, what, what other differences has there been? What other surprises has there been from transitioning to like a data role from a teacher role? What has been a big surprise to you?

I think the most surprising thing or the thing that I really have enjoyed the most is just the flexibility of it. Um, You know, I can log on at 8 o'clock and, you know, then go take an hour lunch or, or go take my car to get an oil change if I need to, and then come back and finish work at 4 or 5 o'clock, whatever it is, just as long as you get your work done, I feel like for me, at least as a teacher, there is a lot of. Not necessarily micromanaging, I guess a little bit of it, but also there's always something that pops up, right? There's always something that popped up in the school day where it just kind of not necessarily derails your day, but it makes, certainly makes your life a lot more challenging. And I'm not saying that can't happen at this job, but it just feels like, you know, your boss, trust, like my boss, trust me, she gives me the work to do. I go ahead and do it. If I have questions, I message her, you know, if not, we just go about each of our days. And that's something that has really been not necessarily surprising, but I guess a little bit because I didn't really know how the corporate world necessarily worked. I've been so used to school for the last X amount of years of my life, and that's something that I've really enjoyed. And then just obviously remote work is it's nice that I could run downstairs. Make a protein shake and then come back upstairs and not miss a beat.

Not, not a whole lot of, uh, remote work and teaching and also not a whole lot of flexibility. It's like, it's like if you, if you want to start working at 7am, well, there's like no students there at 7am. If you want to start working at like 9am or whatever, right? There's like students who have been waiting there for like an hour or whatever. So, uh, a little bit different in like the data world, the, just obviously like not really any shifts and, um, the deadlines are more, more flexible, softer than they would be in teaching because, uh, that's just, that's just kind of how business works versus how teaching works.

Yeah, I just think that you need to be able to prioritize things, right? Like, they'll give you a list of things to do. Uh, and you just kind of do your best to, to get them done or to, to do whatever they ask really. And, and for the most part, like you just said, it's, it's relatively soft, you know, deadlines, unless, you know, it's my boss might reach out to me and say, Hey, I need this done by Wednesday. Well, okay. Then that's first priority, right? You just change up what you're doing and, and go from there, but it's been, the switch has been awesome. It has definitely been great.

Any regrets?

Absolutely not. I think I told you the only thing I really miss is, is coaching, but I could always go back to that if I really wanted to.

So, so you're pretty happy in the new role.

Definitely. Definitely happy in the new role. Um, I, I really like, and for any other teachers, I think for me personally, it was, I couldn't see myself. In doing the same thing in the classroom for the next 45 years, because I didn't really want to be a principal or, um, you know, a supervisor or anything like that with here. Like, we just talked about there's there's so many different opportunities for growth. You know, I could be a pricing analyst, or I could go and be just a normal data analyst that they have here. Um, you know, I could stay and do this for a while. And so on and so forth, but there, there is a lot of different opportunities for growth. So definitely no regrets and something that I'm really excited about. I mean, I personally don't care. What are they going to say to me? Right. I didn't know if you wanted to put that out there for them, but I would just like, well, yeah, go ahead and say it. All I was going to say was like, I, I feel like learning the skills is great and all, but I also, you know, I don't know how much we want to talk about, talk about money on here, but I really, I think it was, I paid like 12 grand to learn skills, which is how much you could pay for a master's program, which in all likelihood. They also don't set you up with the portfolio or networking, right? So essentially I paid, I paid for what would be the equivalent of a master's program and got none of the portfolio or networking that I could have done here first for 11, 000 less. And that's the only regret that I have when we were talking about regrets. That's the only regret that I have is that I could have just started with this. You know, I had a decent bit of skills. That I already knew could have learned it better through this and saved 11,

000. Let me ask you why you didn't do that in the first place. What, what was holding you back?

So I don't think I really knew much about what was out there. I didn't do enough research to find the best program for me. I think I just, Honestly, I just saw this ad. I was like, Oh, I mean, it's a six month program. I only got to do it three days a week. I'll learn some skills and I feel like I'm going to job right after. And I, I literally thought I'd be able to get a job right after doing it. Uh, and that's just, this is not how it works, but I don't know if that's me being naive or me just not really knowing much about the corporate world. Being a teacher.

I don't think it's you being naive. I think, I think all these institutions. Have good intentions. Uh, I will say a lot of these institutions use brand name to kind of woo you in. So for example, I was a bootcamp professor at MIT, right? I wasn't employed by MIT. In fact, all the people who run the bootcamp were not ran. They're not employed by MIT. It was a third party service that was basically promoting MIT's professors recorded video. Yeah. Yeah.

Because if you, I, if I go to my professor's LinkedIn, it doesn't say Rutgers university. I think it's like edX or something like that.

Yep. Yep. EdX is a, is a big one. Um, so that's, that's one thing is like, they're, they're kind of using brand names and, and, and people trust brand names. Like, I think that's another thing with the Google analytics certificate is it has Google's name on it. So it must be good. It's way too long. It teaches you the wrong stuff. There's not even a project. There's no networking, but it has Google's name. So it has to be good.

I was just going to say, that's the other thing. Like, I feel like your program specifically focuses on what you need to know right now to help you get out of and where you need to be. And then like we've talked about, you can go and learn everything else after that. Whereas this program that I did at Rutgers, I, I swear to you, it was Excel, VBA, Python, SQL, HTML, Java. Machine learning all of it in a six month period and it was just information after information and you never stopped to even think about what you were going to do after this because you were so bogged down in trying to learn the information right now, right? So there was no me thinking like, oh, I have to go talk to somebody to help me. You know, find a job here, or I need to, um, display this better because the way things like that are promoted is that this, you're going to make a portfolio. That's just your GitHub. And like we've talked about, no, no one is going to look at that

a hundred percent. It's funny. Cause I mean, I went through college thinking the exact same thing, right? Where it's like, Oh, those teach me everything that I'm going to use on the job. Well, what you actually use on the job and what you learn in college are two very different things. Uh, and I don't think there's a whole lot of. Time and thought going into a lot of these programs of like, uh, we're just going to teach them everything and we're just not going to update the curriculum at all. But like teaching, first off teaching VBA, I think at this point is pretty dumb. I think VBA is going pretty extinct, uh, here in a second. I don't think

anyone uses it.

Yeah, it's, it's, there's definitely some people out there. Who are older, who are still using it. But I think any coding is kind of getting replaced by Python. Even Microsoft's putting Python inside of Excel, I think is a pretty big admission on their part that they see it going downhill. Uh, learning HTML as any sort of data professional, especially early on is, is kind of silly. That's not used very often. There are. Instances where you're using, where you're creating like web applications, that it is handy, but it's definitely not like needed to land your first job or your second job, the majority of the time. So they kind of just throw a bunch of skills at you. And, and honestly, learning the skills is fun and you feel like you're making progress. I think that's how I felt hard. Yeah. Like networking, like you, you are this close to a job and you said, quote. It's hard to not feel defeated. And little did you know, two weeks later, you're going to have a job that you're super stoked on. Uh, but learning skills feels good. You can see progress networking. You can't really see the progress.

Yeah, unfortunately not. Um, and you know what the funny thing is, they didn't even teach us R in that program. R wasn't, we learned pretty much everything, never R.

Oh, wow. They just haven't. Yeah, it was, it was

some, I mean, we did some really, really in depth stuff, uh, for sure. Uh, I mean, towards the end we were doing machine learning, so I'm like, I was training models and stuff like that, which again, awesome, but not gonna help me get a job.

By itself, that's.

No, not by itself.

One of the things that we talked about in the program at first is like You're going to work like 90, 000 hours, uh, in, in your lifetime. Do you really want to be doing something that you don't necessarily love? Um, so I'm glad, I'm glad you, you made the investment and you bet on yourself, uh, bet on your future. You're like, I'm going to enjoy these 90, 000 hours. I'm going to, I'm going to be doing it from home and not have to worry about. You know, what parents are saying about what I said to their kids or vice versa or whatever, right? Like, uh, live, live life a little bit with more, more freedom and on your terms. Okay. Well, awesome, Thomas. We'll have your LinkedIn information and the show notes down below. Can people reach out to you if they have any questions?

Yeah, absolutely. Anytime.

Okay, sweet. I think everyone needs to follow Thomas's example, uh, here and, uh, really focus on the cold messaging. I think that was a big part and the, the portfolio, uh, really the P in the end of, of the SPN method. Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for being such a good example of it. Uh, we really appreciate it.

Of course. Anytime.