151: Women in Data: Career Advice from 6 GENIUS Data Analysts

[00:00:00] Avery: Over the past 1000 days, I've had the opportunity to interview some of the smartest and brightest minds in the data world. They've given really great advice on what it actually takes to land a data job. This is stuff that you can't really learn anywhere else like college or university. And it's all right here in my podcast and you can listen for 100 percent free.

[00:00:20] Avery: And in today's episode, you'll hear genius career advice from six of my. favorite data analysts. They'll teach you what it's like to work in data and also give you advice to actually land a data job and hint. It's not as straightforward as you might think it is. It's not just learn SQL. In fact, it's probably stuff you would not expect to hear.

[00:00:42] Avery: So without further ado, let's go ahead and get into it. Okay. So our first guest is Sundas Khalid and she is a genius. You guys, she's a principal data scientist at Google and has over 500, 000 social media followers. Across all of social media, Sundance taught me to keep going no matter what things [00:01:00] can be stacked against you, but eventually you'll try hard enough and you'll get lucky one of those times.

[00:01:05] Avery: And she's the perfect example of that. She's a high school dropout, an immigrant, a mom of two. She didn't study computer science. She went to a normal university and yet. She is in one of the most prestigious jobs in literally the entire world. So let's listen to how she got there. Sundas, I'm so excited to have you on because you have such a unique story.

[00:01:24] Avery: You're a high school dropout, immigrant child, and now you're an analytics lead at freaking Google. So how on earth did you get here?

[00:01:32] Sundas Khalid: I am a high school dropout and I'm an immigrant and I was six years gap between my high school and my university, so when I look back now to like. 10, 15 years ago, I can't believe that I am here.

[00:01:43] Sundas Khalid: Um, so I think like a couple of things that helped me really, really, uh, in my career. One is knowing what I want to do. And when I don't know what I want to do, like I still kept going. So when I started in my career, like my first internship, what am I was at Amazon? Um, I was [00:02:00] lucky enough to get that internship.

[00:02:01] Sundas Khalid: It was really coincidental because I learned about that internship at a networking event, um, while I was going to school prior to that, I was getting rejected from all the internships. From my experience, like I have always been open to trying new things. And Amazon is something that I didn't want to try initially, but I just jumped into it.

[00:02:20] Sundas Khalid: One of my best friends at that time, um, he actually worked at Amazon and he was like, no, you have two kids. There's no way you're ever going to survive at Amazon. I was like, no, I have to try it for myself and I have to go for it. I ended up going for it. And that was ended up being one of the best career decisions that I've made because one, Amazon took a lot of chances on me.

[00:02:39] Sundas Khalid: Like it let me try out new things. For example. My first job was a data engineer, uh, which I like passed the technical interview screen, but there was still a lot that I needed to learn on the job. So my teammates, my senior members on the team. basically taught me a lot during my first job as a data engineer.

[00:02:56] Sundas Khalid: Uh, secondly, like one of the advice that I got from my mentor early on [00:03:00] is, um, I couldn't figure out, I, I would always meet people and they were, they were always like so passionate about specific topics, specific area. And I wasn't really like passionate, passionate about it. I think I was doing data engineering at that time.

[00:03:11] Sundas Khalid: So I asked my mentor, like, what should I do? I don't, I'm not like really passionate about something. In particular, like, I like data engineering, but I don't know if I want to do that long term. So his advice to me was, sometimes you find what you're passionate about and sometimes you don't. And if you don't know what you're passionate about, you still keep going and eventually you'll figure it out.

[00:03:31] Sundas Khalid: So that's exactly what I ended up doing. I did data engineering and I found data scientist role. And that for me, like this is, I knew like that's the exact next thing that I want to do. And I pivoted having the right mentors by my side, having the aptitude to like pivot and learn new things has been like really, really, really helpful in my career.

[00:03:49] Sundas Khalid: And lastly, I, I would, I want to say like luck definitely plays a role. You being at the right place, right time. Definitely puts, has some, there is like some luck [00:04:00] involved. Like it would be unfair if anybody comes to you and say like, it's all hard work. It's not all hard work. It's hard work you putting in the work, but also like you have to be at the, sometimes you have to be at the right place, right time for things to happen.

[00:04:11] Avery: Yeah. I like to say the, the harder you work, the luckier you get a lot of the time. Like, um, if we go back to, you know, landing your first day at a job, you're just a business student, you've taken a few like it classes in, in your college career, but at the end of the day, you're like a business major, like you said, with two kids, how the heck are you going to start interning at Amazon?

[00:04:27] Avery: Um, and you went to that networking event. And I think that's kudos to you because a lot of people wouldn't have gone to that networking event because one, it's like just another thing to do to those networking events. A lot of the times they're very awkward and you have to like. Go up and like present yourself to people.

[00:04:40] Avery: And you're like, hi, I'm Sundance. And like, uh, you should hire me and stuff like that. And so, yes, like luck had a big part, like they had to be interested at you at that networking event. Um, but just like the fact that like you showed up, uh, I think is that's a lot of people don't, and that's, that's the hard thing is it's uncomfortable to show up sometimes.

[00:04:57] Avery: And then the other thing I want to say about you, [00:05:00] Sundance, that I think has really stuck out to me. Um, we've gotten to meet, uh, in person for a couple of days, uh, a year ago. And then we've also just gotten to interact online. It's like, you're a very clear communicator. Um, like you're very good at like knowing what you want to say and making it very easy for the person you're talking with to understand like, okay, this is what Sundance means.

[00:05:18] Avery: This is like what she's doing. And this is what I should do because of it. I think that's played like a huge role. Uh, in your career as well. Awesome stuff from Sundance. I hope you guys enjoyed that. And our next guest is even just as cool. Her name is Cole Naflik and Cole is the author of Storytelling with Data.

[00:05:33] Avery: And she is one of the biggest thought leaders in the entire data world. She even taught all of her data storytelling stuff at Google and has literally taught. Pretty much all the big companies in the U S how to do data storytelling. So in this little clip, she taught me that my analysis matters less than I think it does, and it's less about my analysis and more about my presentation.

[00:05:55] Avery: We can talk about data all we want and data is great, but data is only as good as it [00:06:00] impacts your business or your organization. We don't do data analytics just for funsies. We do it to make an impact in the world. And really those impacts are mostly made by how we communicate and present what we learned through the data.

[00:06:12] Avery: So here's a short storytelling with data masterclass from Cole. If you guys haven't heard of Cole before, uh, she is the author of the book storytelling with data. It is one of the best books on storytelling with data, but specifically like data visualization and how to present and convince people at your work.

[00:06:30] Avery: Place, uh, of your findings. Um, I want to start off with actually a little bit about, about your career because you studied mathematics in college, right?

[00:06:39] Cole: Yeah. Math. I have an undergrad in math, uh, or applied math and, uh, an MBA.

[00:06:44] Avery: Okay. And when you graduated, did you ever see yourself becoming like the author of a storytelling with data book and, and kind of this whole career that you have now?

[00:06:53] Cole: No, it didn't exist as as a career. I don't think at that point I, as I mentioned, [00:07:00] I majored in math and I, I remember getting into my senior year in college and still trying to figure out what do I want to be when I grow up? And I remember going to a series of sessions that were, you know, like, What profession to have as a math major.

[00:07:14] Cole: And so I listened to the actuaries and the, the finance people, and I had this moment of, or longer than a moment, you know, the, the crisis of like, Ooh, none of these careers sound like what I want to do. Uh, and I remember then getting some of the best advice that I have received. I think, as I look back for my mother, which was finished the degree.

[00:07:37] Cole: Finished my math degree and then got a job in banking, uh, not in finance though, in credit risk management, where I was building statistical models, uh, forecasting loss, try to understand how we should reserve for the bank. And I loved, I loved the technical side of it, but also bringing creativity in. And where I brought creativity and was [00:08:00] in how I was visualizing the data, simple things like colors and some inadvisable things.

[00:08:05] Cole: As I look back, like. or cram as many graphs on a slide as you can get on there. But interestingly, what I found over time was when I spent time and thought on the design of the visuals, people ended up spending more time with my work. And so that became a self reinforcing thing, uh, where. Other people would come to me and I became the sort of internal expert when it comes to how do you show data, uh, fast forward through a few career changes.

[00:08:36] Cole: And I was at Google still using a lot of the same statistical methods, but now in a analytics role in HR. So people analytics forecasting things like who's likely to leave the organization and when, and what sort of things can we test out to change that? And I still spent a lot of time on the visuals and the team I [00:09:00] was on, we were doing a lot of really complicated things that we needed to communicate to the engineers at the organization and the sales people at the organization and everybody in between.

[00:09:10] Cole: So audiences with widely varying. Needs technical skills, familiarity with data. And so that was really interesting to see how do you change how you show things depending on who you're showing it to and where, where is that? How can that be more successful when you think about it from that standpoint? So also, while I was at Google, I part of a training program or part of developing a training program where I was creating coursework on data visualization, which was fantastic because it gave me a chance to pause and research and read everything I could get my hands on at that point, which was not a lot.

[00:09:47] Cole: It was like. Tufti Stephen few, I think his first book was out at that point, but really start to get an understanding of why some of the things I'd arrived at through trial and error over time, you know, why they [00:10:00] work and why some things work better or worse, and really turn that around to be able to teach.

[00:10:05] Cole: Others. And so I did that at Google, uh, taught courses across the organization for a number of years and around the world, and then realized that it's not just. People in technical roles or at a technology company who need to learn how to communicate effectively with data. These aren't skills that we naturally have, even though a lot of the things and we can get into this.

[00:10:29] Cole: A lot of the lessons are really Practical and maybe even obvious once you say them, but until somebody points them out and shares them, we are sometimes our own worst enemy when it comes to trying to communicate effectively. Uh, and so it was, let's see, back in 2012 when I left Google and started storytelling with.

[00:10:50] Cole: data, uh, which is what I've poured the last decade plus into really with the goal of helping people create [00:11:00] graphs that make sense, but also going beyond the graph to, you know, you don't want to just show data. We want to take the data that we work with and learn something new from it and help communicate that new thing to other people so that we can help drive smarter decisions.

[00:11:16] Cole: Uh, reinforce that we're doing things the right way, or that we should change how we're doing things and really have smarter conversations, not about the data, but using the data to have smarter conversations about the business.

[00:11:28] Avery: Wow. Isn't Cole the absolute best? If you guys enjoyed that, and I hope you did after this episode is over, you can go listen to our full.

[00:11:36] Avery: 30 minute review that is on my channel. But up next we have one of my data analytics accelerator students. And I guess really alumni at this point, her name is Rachel Finch. She went from working the night shift at an alcohol manufacturing plants to business intelligence analyst in less than a hundred days.

[00:11:52] Avery: Now, the lesson that Rachel taught me, and I think we'll teach you as well is. A B N. And that stands for always be [00:12:00] networking. And she was actually able to land her data job, her dream data job in a rather unusual way, or maybe I should say like a rather unusual place. It's a place that you probably didn't realize can actually maybe be a hotbed for data networking.

[00:12:16] Avery: It's a little bit strange, but stick with me and let's go ahead and listen to her story. This is so exciting to have you because you are actually a podcast listener. For one year before you ever joined my program or anything like that, you were a podcast listener and now you actually made it onto the show.

[00:12:33] Avery: Your background is in biology, so you got a degree in biology and you thought maybe you'd go into medical, you thought maybe you'd go into nursing or something like that. You ended up as a quality assurance analyst at Anheuser Busch, uh, this alcohol manufacturing company, working the night shift. Now, I don't want to, I don't want to You know, uh, Anheuser Busch I'm sure makes some, some great products, but I can't imagine working the night shift was [00:13:00] particularly fun for you.

[00:13:01] Rachael Finch: Definitely not. It was a big change of pace, different lifestyle. I'm just happy where I am now. For sure.

[00:13:09] Avery: Let's talk about where, where you do now. So you were working quality assurance analyst, uh, Anheuser Busch working the night shift. And, uh, you were like, man, uh, data sure sounds interesting. You listen to this podcast data crew podcast for a year and then January 21st.

[00:13:24] Avery: You join the accelerator program, uh, and then on April 25th, I think just 95 days later, you have an offer for a business intelligence analyst role at Optum Healthcare. That is not the night shift and is fully remote. So let's, let's go through that journey in those 95 days. What was, what was the biggest difference for you?

[00:13:44] Avery: Like what? What changes did you make in your life in those 95 days?

[00:13:48] Rachael Finch: Well, even like leading up to that, in the year where I listened to your podcast, I had a lot of free time and I knew I wanted to go back to school. Something data, we used Power [00:14:00] BI and Anheuser for reports, showing some data every, on a day to day basis.

[00:14:04] Rachael Finch: So I kind of looked for a podcast I could listen to at night and I found yours, not even knowing that you ran a bootcamp. So in January, I actually ran a half marathon. I, on the same weekend, decided to sign up for your bootcamp. I think it was a very big momentum step for me. I was just ready to get out of where I was.

[00:14:25] Rachael Finch: And I actually had the opportunity to change from night shift to afternoon shift for a quarter. So I had about three and a half months. Which I dedicated my spare time to working throughout the boot camp, applying to jobs, and I think just knowing I had that almost like extra sleep gave me the power to work through the boot camp.

[00:14:47] Rachael Finch: And really gave me the motivation to get a new job.

[00:14:51] Avery: So I'm glad, uh, that you cleared your schedule and were able to, you know, put in the effort for a Sprint. Really, it was only like you said, a quarter, right? Just less [00:15:00] than four months. Um, and you are able to land this job at Optum Healthcare as a Business Intelligence Analyst.

[00:15:06] Avery: Um, first off, do you have any business experience?

[00:15:09] Rachael Finch: I mean, I worked at a restaurant when I was in college selling pizza. That's probably about as much as I have for customer experience. Um,

[00:15:18] Avery: business

[00:15:19] Rachael Finch: background.

[00:15:19] Avery: So no, not really. So, well, that's impressive that you're able to land this job. Did they like your biology background at Optum or were they kind of like, ah, we don't really care?

[00:15:27] Rachael Finch: I think it was more so like other experience that experiences I had that tied into my biology background. I, at one point I wanted to be a nurse, so I had some like care aid job experience. I worked in some different labs. I even worked in a research department of a rehabilitation hospital. So I had some data experience with that as well as like working in that type of patient population.

[00:15:54] Rachael Finch: So they liked that part as well as the more like QA and [00:16:00] technical skills that I learned at

[00:16:01] Avery: Anheuser. I just think that's really important to highlight that even though you maybe didn't have business experience and you know, maybe you had a biology background. Your, your quality assurance analyst role, you know, you had some exposure to BI, you had some exposure to KPIs and metric stuff and stuff like that, but with your background, even with the bootcamp, you were applying for jobs and you were kind of struggling to, to land interviews at first because you couldn't quite figure out the whole ATS, right?

[00:16:27] Avery: Like it was, it was tricky.

[00:16:28] Rachael Finch: Right. So when I first started like uploading my resumes to the ATS softwares, I had pretty good scores. And then when I started nitpicking my resume. My scores actually went down, which I thought was shocking, you know, using keywords, some of them didn't even pick up on the words.

[00:16:44] Rachael Finch: So that was kind of, you know, difficult experience. And I think that's where I really dug deep into the SPN method that you talked so highly about the networking part, because that's when I started reaching out to other people I knew in, you know, insurance [00:17:00] companies or other healthcare positions, and if they knew anyone.

[00:17:04] Rachael Finch: That had openings that they thought I would be, you know, an asset

[00:17:08] Avery: to the team. That's so cool. And I think it's so, it seems so simple. Like I talk about the SPN method all the time, uh, right. That you need more than just skills to land a day job. Skills are a part of it, but it's just a third. You need the portfolio and then you need the network.

[00:17:23] Avery: So you're like, crap, I can't get past these ATSs. I'm never going to land a day job unless I can figure out how to get my foot in the door. And the easiest way to get my foot in the door is if I know someone, if that's the end part of the SBN method. And so where did you start looking, just like friends and family?

[00:17:39] Avery: Were you like going through your phone where you're going through LinkedIn or Facebook or something?

[00:17:44] Rachael Finch: I actually Did take a step out of my comfort zone, like you push us to do, I, you know, looked and I'm in Florida in the Jacksonville area. So I was looking in this area, just randomly cold messaging people that were in data roles, [00:18:00] asking them how they got there.

[00:18:01] Rachael Finch: Oh, do you have any like, you know, advice for someone like me that wants to break into this field that might not have the exact background, but has the skills and is working towards the skills. And I actually ended up, a friend from my last job, had a friend who worked for United Healthcare. And Just to break it down, UnitedHealthcare and them are kind of like sisters.

[00:18:25] Rachael Finch: They're together in the UnitedHealth group. So he would, he let me know if there was anything I saw job wide to let him know, and he would recommend me.

[00:18:34] Avery: Okay, so you basically messaged a friend and you're like, Hey, do you know of any opportunities? How did you know this friend? Was this just like someone from like high school or something?

[00:18:43] Rachael Finch: Actually, a friend I go to church with, one of her friends works at UnitedHealthcare. So he kind of. gave me the opportunity if I had, if I saw any jobs that I liked to let him know, and he could recommend me or let me know a little more about that position.

[00:18:58] Avery: That's so [00:19:00] cool because actually the way I, I landed my first data job was also through a friend at church.

[00:19:06] Avery: So if you're, if you're trying to land a data job, I guess you guys just got to get to church because that's, that's where all the data jobs are. Mine was a little bit different where I was. I was at, I was in college and I went home for Christmas and I went to church with my family and I saw this guy that had been like a church leader, like a church youth leader.

[00:19:25] Avery: And we got talking and at the time I was still a chemical lab technician and I was basically getting paid basically minimum wage, maybe even less than minimum wage. And, uh, I was just telling him about that. And he's like, well, did you know that I work at a lab right next to, you know, your college? And I was like, no, I did not.

[00:19:45] Avery: And he's like, yeah, you should come check it out. And I said, great, I will. And so I went and took a tour and then they basically were like, well, you want to be a chemical lab technician here? That's, that's a great offer. Sure. I'll do that. You guys are paying more than minimum wage. I'll take [00:20:00] it. And then eventually that's when I became at the company.

[00:20:02] Avery: I became a data analyst for, so I guess the moral of the story for everyone listening is they just, they just got to go to church to find a data job. I think so too. Okay. Awesome. So you, you reach out to this friend. You're like, Hey, just keep an eye open for me. And how long did it take for, for them to send something back?

[00:20:21] Rachael Finch: Well, I had seen a job that looked interesting. It was kind of had a vague description. So I sent it along his way and just let him know I was interested in it. And I applied and he actually had emailed the manager directly. And I got a call back from the recruiter, maybe two days later saying that, you know, they kind of got a raving review about me.

[00:20:43] Rachael Finch: They'd like to set it up an air view. It was kind of just a brief phone screen at first, but I guess she liked what I had to say and it progressed from there. I

[00:20:52] Avery: want to just pause because you basically went from. You're getting like, like Fs on the ATS [00:21:00] tracker. It

[00:21:00] Rachael Finch: was, no, I'm not even kidding. It really must be a church thing.

[00:21:06] Avery: You're getting Fs. And then all of a sudden you're talking to a recruiter. You got, you got a direct line to this hiring manager right away. And I think that just really goes to show how valuable the, the N was because if, if you didn't do that, if you didn't reach out to this person and from church. You know, you, who knows if you'd have a job right now in the data world, right?

[00:21:28] Avery: You might still be working the night shift, but it's all because that, and was it nerve wracking, like sending that first message to that friend and being like, Hey, can you help me out here?

[00:21:38] Rachael Finch: It was. Cause I knew he had like a pretty high up role. I. But I didn't want to, like, seem like I was using our connection kind of for personal gain.

[00:21:48] Rachael Finch: But I've realized, like, since kind of stepping out of, you know, comfortability, that people really want to promote you and really want to help you [00:22:00] when you're driven. So that's what I've seen. Gaining this connection. Now we have one on one meetings. He let me know if there's anyone I ever want to talk to just to network with.

[00:22:10] Rachael Finch: Like, he'd set that up. So. If anything, it was a great choice on my end to kind of like put the ball in his court and send it down. Down court to other people.

[00:22:23] Avery: I love that to send it. I fricking think that's the way to say it right there is because like it is super nerve wracking to send these types of messages, but as long as you're, like you said, like you're ambitious and you're, you're a good person and you're not like just trying to use them, like you actually value their friendship and you're just like, Hey friend.

[00:22:41] Avery: Can you help me? I mean, think about it. If, if you, or if your friend came to you and said, Hey, can you help me? And you actually could help them. You'd want to help them. Right? So I think we get in our head and be like, wow, no one wants to help us. But it's like, if someone came to us and we have the opportunity to help, we definitely would.

[00:22:57] Avery: And if we don't, we just say, you know what? Sorry, I can't help. [00:23:00] And for, for us or for whoever's asking they're in the same boat that they were earlier. So really there's not much of a, of a lose. It's, it's a low risk, high reward situation. So I'm proud of you. All right. Who would have thought that church is the place to find your next data job, right?

[00:23:16] Avery: I would not have imagined that. So make sure you're there next Sunday if you want that data job. Uh, all right. Jokes aside, uh, next we have Jess Ramos. She's a prolific LinkedIn creator and she taught me in this full episode on how to just be. Proactive in your job search, specifically with networking. I hope you guys are maybe starting to see a theme here with Sundance, with Cole, with Rachel, and you'll see it with Jess.

[00:23:39] Avery: And that is that networking is such a key part of landing your first day at a job. And that's why it's literally one third of the SPN method skills, portfolio and projects and networking. And if you don't have all three, you're really going to struggle to land your data job. But one of the things that just did really well was like, look around her.

[00:23:56] Avery: And be like, what opportunities exist and how do I get my foot in the door? [00:24:00] Literally get my foot in the door and start talking to those people. And kind of like some just talked about earlier, help myself get lucky. And in this case, you know, Jess talks about it. She says I did get lucky, but it was from putting forth the networking effort.

[00:24:12] Avery: So let's listen to Jess's story.

[00:24:13] Jess Ramos: So how I got started in my data career, I took an info systems class in undergrad, and that's where I was first exposed to data. I didn't even know that data was a career choice. And I just really liked it. So from there, I did a directed study and data analytics with that same professor.

[00:24:31] Jess Ramos: And I didn't even need the class to graduate. I did it just because I wanted to learn more. And that led to an on campus job, kind of an internship where I was getting to learn R. So I basically got paid to learn R and learn how to clean data. And that was my first like data project. And while I was there, I decided to apply for grad school.

[00:24:51] Jess Ramos: And while I was in grad school, I got an internship at a local FinTech startup, and that's where I really found my love for the startup and FinTech space. [00:25:00]

[00:25:00] Avery: Awesome. That's very cool. I want to hone in on one of the things that you just said, because for everyone who's listening, who hasn't come to my free data career training, go ahead and click the link in the show notes down below.

[00:25:11] Avery: But one of the slides in that presentation is there's three ways to learn data analytics. One, you can learn for free. There's like a ton of stuff on YouTube. There's a lot of stuff on LinkedIn stack overflow. You can learn for free. The second one is to. You know, go and pay to learn, which, you know, you did and I did as well.

[00:25:27] Avery: And we both have master's degrees in the analytic space. Obviously that costs a lot more than free. It's typically tens of thousands of dollars here in the United States, or you can get paid to learn. And that sounds like you did a little bit of that as well, where you got this job and they were like paying you to do the job and you were learning R on the job.

[00:25:45] Avery: Do you mind just diving into like how you got connected to that? Cause I think everyone would choose. How to get paid to learn. Right. But it's hard to get your foot in the door. So how did you get so lucky to get

[00:25:56] Jess Ramos: Yeah, so honestly it was through networking and [00:26:00] outreach. This job did not fall into my lap.

[00:26:02] Jess Ramos: I was looking for a job to have my senior year, my senior year in undergrad. And I was just like reaching out to different people on campus. Hey, I'm looking for a job on campus. I'm really interested in data. And I actually was looking at the admissions office because I thought that would be an interesting place to work.

[00:26:20] Jess Ramos: And the woman who worked in the admissions office, her husband worked in enrollment management. So And he actually needed someone to do some data work for him. So it was totally through connections and outreach and just word of mouth, but it was really awesome to get paid to learn. It was my first like little project to put on my resume and looking back, it wasn't like a super impressive project or anything, but it just ignited like this fire in me for data.

[00:26:46] Avery: I love that because a lot of people, when they're trying to get their foot in the door, They think it's about skills and it is like, you have to have at least some skills, right? But it's maybe more important who you know, and not even [00:27:00] like who you know, but who you could know, like that can make a really big difference to getting your foot in the door and getting that situation.

[00:27:06] Avery: Like you said, maybe it wasn't the most impressive project of all time, but it's a project and it's on your resume. And that was your building block to landing your next job, which was the internship at the FinTech. And then you got the master's degree. And then where'd you go from there?

[00:27:19] Jess Ramos: So my internship at the Fintech, they actually hired me full time, which was amazing.

[00:27:23] Jess Ramos: So I didn't have to do a super extensive job search for my first job, which was a huge blessing. I got a lot of experience there and I was able to get promoted twice while I was there to a manager position. So. It was honestly a little lucky, but it was a really good setup for my career.

[00:27:39] Avery: Okay. Wow. So basically after two years you got put into a manager position.

[00:27:43] Jess Ramos: Yeah. It's very uncommon, but yeah, it was a small company though. It was only 40 people, but I was managing one full time person and then an intern as well.

[00:27:53] Avery: Did you like being a manager?

[00:27:55] Jess Ramos: I did. I think that it was really fun being able to mentor people. So the [00:28:00] two women that came in behind me, they also came from my same master's program.

[00:28:03] Jess Ramos: So it was cool to see myself in them. They were just like a year behind me and then two years behind where I was. So it's really cool to mentor them and be able to teach them everything I knew. And there's still people I talk to all the time. I'm still really close with them. I realized I was like, I'm a manager at such a young age, and I don't feel like I'm fully developed as an analyst yet.

[00:28:23] Jess Ramos: Like I still have so much that I myself need to learn that when I was looking for my next role, I applied for a few manager positions just for fun. But I was like, I really want to go back to an IC, an individual contributor role, because I really wanted to grow myself.

[00:28:37] Avery: Awesome stuff from Jess. You can check out our full interview if you'd like.

[00:28:42] Avery: After you finish this episode, next we have Hannah MK, and she's a data analyst at a fortune 50 company. And honestly, she is awesome. Seriously. One of the nicest people that is ever in the world, if I'm being honest. Uh, and in this little clip, she reminded me that it's not about collecting tech skills.[00:29:00]

[00:29:00] Avery: Sometimes we like to collect. Text skills, like their Pokemon cards. And the more we have, the better. And we show them off in our collection, right? We don't even show them off. We just have them in our collection. She talks about not having shiny object syndrome or like shiny skill or shiny project syndrome, but actually like focusing on what you already know.

[00:29:17] Avery: And presenting what you already know in an effective way and how that will help you in the workplace or if you're looking for a job. So let's get into Hannah's story and her advice.

[00:29:27] Hana M.K.: I've been working in the industry for about a decade now and what I've noticed. Throughout my career is that from fellow data professionals in my team and other folks that I interact with is that we as data professionals, we tend to and I've been guilty of this as well.

[00:29:42] Hana M.K.: We tend to focus on collecting a lot of technical skills. And there's always a new tool or technology to learn. And I understand that interest. It's a shiny object syndrome. Like it really it gets excited and we want to learn Learn something new. And what ends up happening is that our other skills are other [00:30:00] soft skills like presenting and communicating data.

[00:30:03] Hana M.K.: They don't tend to get the same attention and they're left un honed. So that's why I really like focusing on this, and it's so important we can talk more about this on the show, is it's so important for ourselves and our career and for our work to be able to make an impact. And as a. I identify as someone who is a quiet, shy introvert, and I know many people I work with also identify like that, and we tend to tell ourselves that we cannot be effective presenters or communicators because we see all these like charismatic and so called naturally gifted speakers, and we tell ourselves that we can never be as good as them, but I wanted to challenge that Thought and you still stay true to yourself, but you still get to effectively communicate yourself and your work.

[00:30:49] Hana M.K.: And that's really important for your career.

[00:30:51] Avery: Yeah, that's so awesome. And I think a lot of people listening resonate with that idea of, you know, I'm not very outgoing. I might not see myself as [00:31:00] charismatic and the ability, you know, for you to see yourself. That way and be able to help those people is really neat.

[00:31:05] Avery: And for all those people who feel that way, you definitely can have a huge impact in whatever company or organization you work for you in presenting. Even if you're an introvert where you don't feel that confidence. I want to quickly go through and just kind of talk about like what type of positions that you've maybe had in your career, like what type of titles have you been in presenting data situations?

[00:31:28] Hana M.K.: Honestly, all the titles, because even before I started to work in the industry, I was a graduate researcher. I was presenting my work. I was also teaching college students, so I had to really get comfortable speaking in front of a lot of folks and, you know, as a graduate student as well, presenting at conferences or even just departmental meetings and speaking opportunities, they came up often and that's where you really had to make a case for why the work you're doing, why the research you're doing is important and relevant and what progress you have made.

[00:31:57] Hana M.K.: And then when working in the [00:32:00] industry, I had roles that involved being a GIS technician. Um, it was an entry level position data analyst. I've worked my way up to becoming a senior data analyst, um, and have been in roles where pretty much I'm owner of the product and there is a In all the roles, I would say it's really important, even at the data entry level or just entry level role in general, I've seen that it's really important to be able to present your work, whether it's at like a meeting with your colleagues or your boss, or at a bigger meeting throughout, you know, your org or at a conference, I think in all cases, it's really important.

[00:32:34] Avery: Love, love, love that advice from Hannah. If you're interested in that full interview, you can find that in the show notes. But I want to get into our last data analyst who is. Also very awesome. Her name is Aaron Sheena, and she's another graduate of the accelerator program, which is basically the 12 week bootcamp that I run to help you land your first day at a job.

[00:32:54] Avery: And she now works as a senior financial analyst at Humana. When we first had her on the podcast, she was a financial analyst at [00:33:00] Humana and it's been about a year or so, and she has been promoted to senior. So congrats, Aaron. And she was a music therapist. Before all of this, which is a very interesting job that I had actually never heard of.

[00:33:10] Avery: And when she joined the program, I was like, Oh, that does not seem related to data at all. But somehow through this program, she was able to land a job within like 60 days or so after joining. And what she taught me and reminded me is the importance of having projects. And you'll notice in this clip, she talks about having her projects and how that helped her confidence.

[00:33:28] Avery: How that helped her resume, get more opportunities and get to the ATS more often and how it actually helped her in the interview as well. So let's learn about the P part of the SPN method from Aaron. You studied music in school, but you no longer work in music. So let's start off with what you're currently doing now.

[00:33:46] Avery: What do you do for work now?

[00:33:48] Erin Shina: Sure. So I am a financial analyst at a healthcare company called Humana, and essentially I work in risk adjustment. So basically looking [00:34:00] at claims data, the data that comes through anytime you go to the doctor, and make sure that we're analyzing and filtering it correctly compared to the government agency that runs Medicare and making sure that we are kind of aligning with them so that we can predict how much will be reimbursed for caring for those members.

[00:34:19] Erin Shina: And so basically we then take that analysis and use it to help us predict revenue and make projections for both what we'll get paid for. Or during this year and then in future years as well. I'm a hybrid employee. So I do have one office day per week. Humana is like headquartered in Louisville where I'm from.

[00:34:39] Erin Shina: And so my team meets in the office on Wednesdays and which works for me really well, since I am a very extroverted person, but the rest of the time I am at home remote, it's actually rare that I'm. In my office area, instead of on the couch,

[00:34:52] Avery: you found this job inside of healthcare and you have been working in healthcare as this music therapist, you've been visiting hospitals.[00:35:00]

[00:35:00] Avery: Like you said, you know, hospital speak a little bit like the acronyms and stuff like that. Did that play a role in helping you land this job? Like, was that helpful to know the hospital stuff?

[00:35:08] Erin Shina: Yeah, I think so, you know, especially during my interview process, that was something that I spoke to a lot, you know, and having kind of that background knowledge of just how the industry works and understanding, like, yeah, I might not know like the backend of health insurance, but I know like what these things mean.

[00:35:27] Erin Shina: And I know, you know, kind of why things are set up the way that they are, even if I don't know the details of how it works on the backend. And one of the projects I think that really helped me, Kind of be able to speak to that was the sequel project and the accelerator, the healthcare analysis. That was something that I talked about in all of the interviews that I had.

[00:35:49] Erin Shina: And they were really interested to know, you know, not only to see that I had some SQL skills, but also just to see like that I had used my prior knowledge and like how I had applied [00:36:00] that understanding of the industry to the analysis, like with SQL. So that I think. Was really helpful for me in that whole interview process.

[00:36:10] Avery: Gosh. I actually, I mean, I should have realized that, but I didn't even, I didn't even realize that. And that's so cool because they were like, Hey, we're hiring for a financial data analyst role. The hope is that someone will understand data analytics. They'll understand SQL. And they'll understand hospital or I guess, healthcare data.

[00:36:27] Avery: And you were like, Oh, well, here's a project I've done that you can read where I analyzed. I can't remember how much data is in that one. Like 1. 6 million rows of hospital. They like looked at outcomes and like looked at like what procedures led to these different things and how race played a role in the hospital and stuff like that.

[00:36:43] Avery: And you were like, just, here you go. This is my evidence, right? Are you interested? That must've been really powerful for the recruiter. They're like, Oh, wow. SQL projects with healthcare data. I'm sure they didn't have very many other projects like that. If I were to guess, I don't know,

[00:36:56] Erin Shina: but if I were to guess, I don't know who else applied, but apparently I [00:37:00] did something right.

[00:37:00] Erin Shina: So

[00:37:01] Avery: yeah. Cause you interviewed and then like three days later had an offer.

[00:37:04] Erin Shina: Yeah. Yeah. That's

[00:37:05] Avery: amazing. Can that's so amazing. Congrats.

[00:37:08] Erin Shina: Thank you. And actually I think. Just having the projects in general and having the specific, like, specific tools for a specific project, I think was really helpful. And, you know, maybe just also to highlight.

[00:37:23] Erin Shina: Another aspect of the boot camp, I think the difference for me, I was applying to things, um, kind of, you know, throughout the whole, the time that I was, you know, doing all the modules. And I wasn't really getting a lot of bites and, you know, kind of trying to network and get referrals for jobs. But I think the thing that made the difference was having, I went to one of your, I don't remember if it was a live session or just a module, but all about resumes.

[00:37:50] Erin Shina: And like optimizing your resume. And so I added like literally as I was watching, I was like, okay, I'm going to add these links to my portfolio projects. I'm going to [00:38:00] add, you know, a blurb about what I learned, what I analyzed and why and what I found. And I like sent off a round of applications kind of with that new resume with my projects added like an actual section, not just a link to my to my portfolio site and I like literally had three interviews lined up for like that same week from just that difference.

[00:38:25] Erin Shina: And that was, you know. One of the one of those interviews that I had is the role that I ended up accepting

[00:38:31] Avery: you really just can't Overestimate how important those projects are So I loved hearing Erin talking about how it helped her in her journey You need the S you need the P you need the N in order to land that first data job I hope you enjoyed this little mashup that we made of all of this great advice that have come from some of the best data analysts It's in the world.

[00:38:51] Avery: If you did, please hit subscribe. If you want to check out a full playlist of even more expert data guests to learn stuff that they're not teaching you in school, they're not teaching you in [00:39:00] bootcamps, they're not teaching you on data cam, they're not teaching you on Maven or any other platform you're on.

[00:39:04] Avery: You guys can check out the links in the show notes down below, or you can click right here and watch even more interviews.